Social Emotional Health in Schools- Larissa Gregory

Today I have the privilege to interview Larissa Gregory of LG consulting. Larissa, how are you today?

I'm doing good Blake, how are you?

I am doing well. The way I love starting out on the Saturday sips episode is just asking what you are sipping on. Currently,

I am currently slipping on black coffee, which is always my drink of choice first time in the morning. But for me, it's not necessarily what I'm drinking, but it's what I'm drinking out of. I love coffee mugs, and my coffee mug defines my mood. So today it says love yourself to doing a lot of self love self care today as I drink my coffee.

Well, I am also currently sipping out of my favorite coffee mug this morning. Before we like jump into the full course question of schooling versus education, and what you believe needs to be done in the context of schools. I would love for you to give us a little bit more context around. What is LG consulting? What is its mission? What is your work look like an education currently?

Yeah, so LGM consulting is a little bit over a year old officially. But it's been something that I've kind of dabbled in, dabbled in and Ouda for a little bit. But I have been working with educators with teachers, with districts, social workers, school counselors, around adult social emotional health and learning as well as child adults. Ooh, that didn't make sense. Child social, emotional learning, hey, Saturday. And it's been, you know, a joy to like watch that evolve. Like, I'll be honest and say that, if it wasn't for a part of my story, with our youngest son being born with special needs, I probably would. Still I'd like to think that I'd still be in a school because I really enjoy being in person with teachers and families and students and in the community. But LG Ed consulting has given me a way to stay connected to the work that's happening. And it's allowed me an avenue to really equip teachers and schools with that needed set of intangible skills when it comes to emotional health and well being so that kids can have access to rigorous instruction, kids will not learn a thing teachers really will not be able to teach if they're not in check with their emotional health.

I love that work. And it feels really unique because there's a tremendous amount of stress around how are we going to get students and teachers to perform, and just what that does to a human psyche and the human emotion when we're constantly asked to maximize our performance. And so that unique work just feels so needed. Thanks for offering us some context. Another thing that I just really value about the show is giving people space to name themselves. I think so often we operate from an identity that's given to us or sometimes forced upon us and so I just wanted to create space for you to just name yourself.

Yeah. So my name lorrison Gregory right. But I men juggle many hats. I am a proud wife of Dean Gregory who is a nurse. I am the proud mother of three beautiful black boys. Jackson is nine Linux seven and Houston is almost to Houston has made DNI special needs parents and caregivers. He was born with multiple diagnosis is that no sees that ghost distance of seven to be exact. And he has taken us on a journey that's now a part of identity that we were not prepared for, nor did we anticipate but we're here. I'd like to say that I'm an advocate for change. I'm an advocate for doing things that are right. fair and just true people when it comes to their emotional stamina and well being. I love being a friend. I love being committed to those who I'm in relationship with, whether that's friends or family. I am an enneagram eight and I am proud of it. Sometimes I don't have a wing but when I do I have a wing nine. So that makes me a bear. If anybody follows the enneagram

fun facts. Larissa and I are both enneagram eight wing nine and our children have the same birthday. So I am currently looking at and researching this idea of schooling. And in the process of researching schooling and the history of schools in the United States, I found the need to contrast two really important ideas. And the, the contrasting ideas are the value of education, versus the structure of schooling. And so I define education as a value that offers dissonance support, growth, human development. And then I offer schooling as a structure, just like any other structure in society that is influenced by power, and may not have the best interests of everybody at any given point throughout history. And so the question I like to start out with is what is education to you,

education is an opportunity. Education has the ability to be liberating. Education is a platform that can be paired with a lot of intentional care, love and concern. Education is a privilege, for most education, done well, is rare.

And so there is this idea of education being a privilege, and it being rare, and it being a platform for people. And then it's being served to people through the structure of schooling. And so I would love to hear your take on what is schooling or schools to you.

Yeah, schools are segregated. Schools are one of the greatest disparities that go unspoken. Schools are a playground for joy and innovation, and creativity, if we choose it. Schools are a safe haven for a lot of children and teachers, and educators. Schools is where we're built. It's where we spend the majority of our time in our development. And it's a time that we can either capitalize on or it's a time that we're harmed. And that harming piece is really loaded. But there's so many opportunities that a school could have, or the system of schooling could have, that we're passing up on right now overall, like as a collective unit. So I believe education in school, like they go hand in hand, right. And there's like some wins on both sides. And there's some misses right now, on both sides, in my opinion.

Yeah. And so I'd be interested for you to just continue to give us more context around that. Prior to LG consulting, you are in his school building, as a dean of culture, correct?

Yeah, I was the Dean of Students. I'm a behavior interventionist, and an assistant principal. And so I wrote that journey for about eight years. And, you know, being a behavior interventionist, it provided me a lens that I didn't know that I was going to receive. So I started outside of education as a cognitive behavioral therapist working in the foster care system. To help students, kids and families stay with their biological family or to adjust to a different setting. And coming into education with that lens, I started to see that kids were coming into buildings with a lot of needs that had nothing to do with academic teachers were coming into classrooms trying to provide, you know, rigorous and differentiated instruction. But like, had their own stuff that they were trying to work through. And you put both of those two things together. kids coming into the classroom with well meaning intentions and teachers coming into the classroom with well meaning intention. But when we all carry our own stuff, it doesn't go as beautifully as maybe we had planned either as a student or as a teacher. And so stepping back and equipping kids with coping skills to manage what they were facing, what they were growing through what they were experiencing. helping teachers realize and see and affirm and teachers, that kids experiences are a result of like some root issues or causes or challenges or barriers that aren't personal to the teacher necessarily. And some of the things that come from teachers to students aren't personal towards students. It's what the teachers going through. And so helping everybody kind of understand that cycle in support, the behavior of students in support and equip teachers that have the skills to support students was a lot of the work that I did to begin with. And then I started to see that like, there was this greater structure, within school leadership, there was this greater structure within like policy and procedure and routines and rhythms within a school building that had to change if we were going to see students as whole beings and people. And if we are going to see teachers as whole beings and people. And so I remember at a local elementary school, I was the behavior interventionist, and I saw this gap. And I was like, we need a dean of students. So I wrote up the job description, and I took it to the executive director at the time, and I was like, This is what we need, this is what we're missing. And he was like, Great, now you have a new job. And so I became the Dean of Students, and started working from there. And you know, I really, really enjoyed that workplace. And leading a school being a part of the school leadership team, it changes your perspective on what's possible. And it also shows you the constraints of what you're up against and what you have to advocate for.

And when you are thinking about advocating and some of the policies that are causing the harm that you spoke to earlier, how do you see yourself changing policy and alleviating some of that harm that's happening and being perpetuated within a school building?

Yeah, um, I can speak to when I was in a school, and you know, their system. There's policy, specifically on the disciplinary side of the school structure and system. That is not for all kids, specifically marginalizes students of color, specifically marginalizes male students, and specifically marginalizes students with individual education needs. And so looking at that, I had to see where I could make a difference and how I was going about supporting the needs of those specific communities and people groups. And learning that that's not a popular thought. And being okay, with people pushing back against doing something different. And knowing and understanding why I was doing what I was doing, why I was willing to try something new that maybe nobody had tried before. And I learned to always have an answer, even if there's not a result yet. And so one example is I saw that there was a specific group of students that were continuing to be suspended over and over again. And so I research the school within a school model, a drew up a proposal, and propose that we no longer suspend our tier three students, but that we provide an alternate learning environment within the school that wasn't a suspension, but met their behavioral needs, their emotional needs and their academic needs. And that was not a popular proposal at the time. But it's something that we tried. And it's something that was revamped. And it's something that went through a lot of different changes. And we saw results of students being able to access more seat time, and have access to rigorous instruction or instruction that was rigorous to them, other than just suspending and putting kids out. And so it takes risk. It takes willingness to continue to go up to bat and to say the thing over and over again, to know your why. And so that's the type of advocacy that happens. You know, during those eight years of being within a school, I would say outside of a school and in my work with LG and consulting. It's being very clear that I know and understand the research that supports that if we invest in teachers social emotional health, and we invest in the social emotional health of children, that teachers are more likely to sustain hard work over time in the classroom. that children are more likely to graduate college or to pursue, pursue, excuse me, a post secondary path, they're more likely to take risks inside of the classroom. Students are more likely to trust the process of learning, and to be creative, and to be transparent and vulnerable with their peers and to show empathy, all of these other things, that research says, you know, it's helpful to the education system, but where people get afraid, it's doing something different. And there has to be this willingness to do something different. Because talking about our emotions, being vulnerable, being transparent about what we're going through, it's not the run of the mill. Think about it when we're like out in public. And somebody says, Hey, Martha, how are you doing? usually go, Hey, I'm doing great. How are you? Oh, I'm great. When underneath the surface that taylorist How you doing? Oh, you know, what, this week was really hard. Houston had five seizures. And he's still not fully sleeping through the night. But we're maintaining, you know, the ways that we know how, how, how are you? A listener? Thanks for sharing that, you know, we have been having our own version of hard but we're maintaining to is good to see you. Like that's a different conversation. And that's not one that we are equipping people to have, nor one that we've normalized, both inside of the school or prepared people for outside of their schooling experience.

And would you say that when you're talking about several things that you've written up a school within a school? And then there was one more? What was the other policy that you? Oh, you did? You needed a dean of students. And this wasn't a very popular decision. I'd love to hear more about why you saw it wasn't popular.

Yeah, I think it goes to maybe tradition and comfort, or maybe looking at what other people are doing and seeing that nobody else is doing that. And sometimes, like that can be attractive. that, hey, nobody's doing this. So let's do this. But other times, it can be like, well, if that's so great, why aren't other schools doing it, and social emotional health and learning and mental health mattering within a school building, it takes investment. And it takes a commitment to overhaul things that have been done for the sake of tradition, or normalcy, or this is just how we do things. And so when there's no like clear evidence to point or show people, hey, if you do this, this is exactly how it's going to come out, that can feel threatening, or that can feel scary or like a big risk. But when we're thinking about human lives, when we're thinking about the outcome of kids, and as teachers and as families and communities, if we're wanting something different, we have to look at it and say, You know what, what we're doing is not working within the context of our community, it's not working. And so if you want a different result, you have to try something different. And that doesn't go to say that there aren't risk takers all across our city. There aren't that does doesn't go to say that there aren't risk takers. You know, across the country, I believe that there are some revolutionary ones. But it takes those people consistently stepping up to the plate, and using their voice and saying, you know what, let's do this different. This is why we should do it different. This is the impact that I think it will have. And if we become more comfortable with failing with grace and learning from our mistakes, and then trying again, versus feeling like we have to try perfect the first time. I think we would see slow intermittent flow, Interim. Intermittent. Yeah, growth over time. My words are far from me this morning, Blake, I need to drink more of my coffee.

That's okay. Take it take another sip. It's all right. There is grace for a space to find our words, which I think is a lot of what podcasting is, is trying to find our words for what we're experiencing on a day to day basis. When I heard you speaking about the need to do something different, and the need to think about the way we approach humans in school buildings differently, I was reminded of the Instagram accounts nap ministry. If you haven't followed them, you should it offers a lot of dissonance and disruption. And it's this idea that rest and self care are acts of resistance in our acts that begin to dismantle white supremacy and the philosophy of maximization where we're trying to get the most out of human beings so that we can make money and I'm curious In your work with teachers, how are you helping teachers and administrators realize that this is an act of resistance. And in doing this, it's going to feel hard and difficult to reorient yourself as a human within a school that may not be set up to treat humans like humans.

Yeah, you know, I think prior to 2020, because it has been a lot within its own right. We had normalized that educators are to work exhausted. And I think we had even glamorize this the fact that educators like work over time, that's unpaid, constantly. And like that's just a part of the job. Like we show up with coffee in our hand, we show up with bags under our eyes, we show up with a heavy heart because we missed our son's Christmas performance, like whatever it is like that used to be a part of the job, and to experience 2020 as an educator, as I've heard people express and as I've helped people process over the last like nine or 10 months, we can't do that anymore. And I've sat in spaces Blake to where teachers didn't know that it was okay to say that they were exhausted. teachers didn't know that they didn't have to sneak to take a sick day, but they could really take a personal day as a mental health day. And that is okay. Those are not things that we say out loud. Just because you take a mental health day does not mean that you have a mental health diagnosis. And if you do have a mental health diagnosis, that too is okay, that you need to take a breath and a break so that you can get the rest and recharge that you need. We have glamorize just to continue to grit and grind and go. And we have broken down teachers and educators and administrators and students and families because of that mindset. And so supporting people to feel empowered to stay that they're not well. To be able to name that you're tired and you need a break or that you need recharge, or that you can't commit to all the committee's and activities and extracurricular things that you want, could have giving people voice and face to name those things. And then equipping people with tools so that they can feel healthy enough to continue in the work. Or so that they can say you know what I thought this was for me, but it's not right now. And that could be okay. And so through LG Ed's consulting, like really speaking into those spaces, I like to divide it up into three different categories, one being self compassion and kindness. The next one being self care and true self care more than like a bubble bath and a haircut. But what does it look like to integrate self care into your lifestyle into your rhythm and routine. And then the last one is maintaining healthy boundaries. And we often feel like as educators that if we have boundaries, if we have time boundaries on our day, that our evenings are not accessible, that our weekends are not workdays we feel like we're not committed. But it's actually the exact opposite. We will get more work done for kids and the communities that we serve, if we are well. And we will be able to maintain the passion that we came to the work with, if we're not burnt out. And so for not making space for those three things, then we are going to suffer from compassion fatigue, we are going to suffer from burnout in a way that we don't bounce back. And when you're not able to bounce back from compassion, fatigue and burnout. That's when harm begins to happen, maybe unintentional harm, but harm begins to happen from mellie Well, meaning there is no words well meaning individual. So yeah, I really think that self compassion and kindness, self care and healthy boundaries are super important for us to honor for teachers and for us to honor for kids and family.

I love that because it speaks to so many things that I see problematic and I in my work with young novice teachers, this idea of grit which I am like growing to have a disdain for this this terminology of we just need to grit and grind and get through it when after being in this work for a little bit longer than two years or three years. Which is now like the average time of teachers spending in the classroom, you realize the you realize that the work that needs to be done is going to surpass me and the life that I have. And so my goal right now is how do I see myself in the long game of bringing justice and humanity back to schools that allow children not just to be able to read proficiently, which is super important, but also allows children and adults to find themselves and deepen their identity and who they are. And so I love this idea of how do we elongate our role? How do we see ourselves in education over the long term, and not just in tomorrow's lesson? I just think that's super pivotal, and a great takeaway from this podcast. So whoever is listening, take that away, tuck it in your pocket. And when you come back from Christmas break, like make sure you pull it out, we've now kind of come to the time in the podcast, where I would love for you just to give you give us, I'm going to say that again. Now we've come to our time in the podcast, where I would like for you just to give us your call to action. Speak to teachers and students in a way that maybe I can't. And so I'm just going to open it up. What is your action call for educators and students today?

Um, I think my call to action would be show up as your authentic self and be okay with being different. push against the norm, when it's called for. Don't take no for an answer. When you know that the answer should be or could be yes. It may feel like the answer is not yet. And that's okay. But stay committed to what's true for you. for educators, take care of yourselves. If there's anything that I could, like, just speak into the hearts and the minds of educators right now, it's that you're not alone. And that the work that you are tirelessly showing up to do on a day to day basis, is one of our frontline worker and an essential worker. And it's a thankless work, both seen and unseen things that you're doing on a daily moment to moment basis. Take care of yourself, invest in yourself, do the things that matter to you take breaks throughout your day, look out the window, go for a walk, drink your coffee, wear your favorite outfit, whatever it is that's going to sustain you. You are important you are cared for you are appreciated, and you are valued. And just as teachers are showing up every day, if there's any students that are in this space, thank you for staying committed to your work and to show up and to learn every day. And some really hard times and just as I've called your teachers to rest and take care of themselves, you're going to ask you to do the same thing as a student. Take care of yourself in the ways that bring you joy that bring you rest and that bring you recharge. And I'm grateful that you are braving a system that maybe was not built for you. And I'm grateful that you are pursuing an education so that she can have opportunity and opportunity and more opportunity.